This is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the IGF 2014 Istanbul, Turkey, meetings. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We're just going to do a test or two on people who are remote.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Sorry, ladies and gentlemen. We are always working with remote to try to do it.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Anyway, I didn't finish my sentence. To try to get things done. So we have three people on remote. We can't hear them.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Shadi is saying he can hear you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Shadi is saying he's going to do the chat box.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you all for waiting patiently.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Hello, Shadi, can you hear us?
>> ANDREA SAKS: I'm going to wait until everybody gets settled. So we have Gerry. Gerry, speak again.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Good morning. Yes, it's Gerry here.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay. We have Shadi. Can Shadi -- Shadi can hear us but cannot speak.
>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Hi, Andrea. I hope you can hear me now.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Hi, Shadi. There you are. Who else do we have on the line?
>> CHERYL LANGDON-ORR: Cheryl. I don't know if you can hear me. But I can hear you fine.
>> ANDREA SAKS: And who else is on?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl from Australia.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Brilliant. Thank you, Cheryl. Welcome aboard. I think that everybody has audio. We are ready. Okay. I'm going to be using -- I'm going to open the meeting. And I want you all to introduce yourselves. It's a big meeting. That way the captioner gets used to your name.
We will start with myself. I am Andrea Saks. I'm in charge of relations for the Global Initiative for Inclusive Technologies. And we are a partner of the Dynamic Coalition.
>> JAROSLAW PONDER: Good morning to everyone. My name is Jaroslaw Ponder. I'm the strategy and policy advisor and the Director for the European region in the ITU International Telecommunication Union.
>> AUDIENCE: My name is Pashkar.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Can you spell your name?
>> AUDIENCE: My name is Pashkar, P‑a‑s‑h‑k‑a‑r. I'm from Bangladesh.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you.
>> JOHN DADA: My name is John Dada. I'm from Nigeria.
I have on my staff three People with Disabilities. I'm representing them here.
>> MIKI NDHLOVU: My name is Miki from South Africa, M‑i‑k‑i. I'm a Commissioner at the South African telecoms regulator. I am responsible for ensuring that People with Disabilities get access to ICT services.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Next person, please.
>> PABLO LECUONA: Hello, my name is Pablo from Argentina. I'm Director of the Digital Library for Blind People. I am secretary of technology and access to information in the Latin America Blind Union.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. Next person? Peter, would you like to come up to the front? You have just been promoted.
And we have --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. We have a lot of staff here helping us, which is absolutely wonderful. Young lady there, please, can you introduce yourself?
>> JUDY OKITE: Good morning, everybody. My name is Judy Okite from the Association for Accessibility and Equality in Nairobi.
>> ANDREA SAKS: In Senegal? I'm sorry; I couldn't hear you properly.
>> JUDY OKITE: Nairobi, Kenya.
>> MARIA POPA: Good morning. I'm Maria Popa from Romania. I work at the NGO in Romania. I write the Freedom of Expression annual report. And we also -- here we organize a gala for Persons with Disabilities that is broadcasted on public television and presents practices all over our country.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. Next person.
>> AUDIENCE: Abdurrahman from Egypt. I am the Secretary-General of the Egyptian foundation --
>> ANDREA SAKS: It's not working.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Closer to your face.
>> AUDIENCE: Okay. Abdurrahman --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Sorry for the delay.
Whoever is typing remotely, can you please mute yourselves when you type? Also we have volume control, can you hear me now. Somebody in the back of the room said they could not hear me which is usually unusual. Is that better?
Ah, we have got captioning are we all set Secretary-General I'm sorry to ask you to repeat but we now you have captioning. Could you please repeat your introduction for us for the record, please, so you are recorded? Thank you.
>> AUDIENCE: Abdurrahman, Egyptian television writer and journalist and Secretary-General of the Egyptian foundation of the Parents Association of People with Visual Impairment. And founder of the first ICT centre in Egypt for the visually impaired.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you very much. Last but not least, my co-coordinator, would you introduce yourself for the record, please?
>> PETER MAJOR: I'm Peter Major, co-Director of the Dynamic Coalition on Accessibility and Disability. I have been a part of this since 2008.
>> ANDREA SAKS: For people online, I'll call out your name. And speak loudly because you're faint. First of all, we have Gerry Ellis.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Good morning, everybody. This is Gerry Ellis dialing into you from Dublin in Ireland. I'm blind and I've been a software engineer in Dublin for over 30 years. I've also been involved in disability issues for around the same length of time and have been involved with the Dynamic Coalition probably as long as Peter. Probably around 2008 or 2009. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Gerry. And I'm going to go to Shadi Abou-Zahra, please. Can you please go ahead and speak loudly?
>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: Hello, this is Shadi Abou-Zahra. It's very unfortunate that I can't be with you today. It's the first IGF for me to miss. I work for the Web Accessibility Initiative of the Worldwide Web Consortium. We are also known for developing the standards to make the Web accessible to people with all kinds of disabilities.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Shadi. Susan Schorr, can you please go ahead?
Deirdre, is she there? Go ahead.
Who else is on -- no, please. Leave the microphone on for her. Go ahead, who else is on the line.
>> CHERYL LANGDON-ORR: Cheryl.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Cheryl, you're in Australia. Go ahead, speak loudly.
>> CHERYL LANGDON-ORR: I'm Cheryl.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Can you repeat -- as Deirdre repeats your name, then introduce yourself. So first Cheryl, go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl says, hi, I am Cheryl Langdon-Orr from Australia, Director of ISOC. So I'm used to working with Gunela, who sadly also isn't there, either. And have been engaged in Australia for a year, on accessibility matters for a decade, and currently chair of the of Accessibility Task Force and Ad Hoc Working Group at large. Peter and Gunela are also in this Working Group.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Turn down your speakers for me, please. Can you do that, Susan? These are the things that we had hoped to test before we started.
Thank you, Roy, who is the captioning genius.
Anybody else who is going to speak, when you get an echo, that means you have to mute your computer because your speakers are feeding in.
Okay. Deirdre, go ahead and speak -- introduce the next person remotely, please.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: We also have Dipendra online.
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: Dipendra from the DAISY Consortium and I'm from New Delhi, India.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Try another mic or a roving mic. Hold on. We're going to do a roving mic. That might work for Deirdre because Deirdre being the remote moderator has to not be able to have feedback feeding into the ears of the captioners. Thank you.
And okay, Deirdre, try that. That will work.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: See if that works.
>> ANDREA SAKS: That's much better. So you use the roving mic. Thank you.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: We also have Dipendra -- I hope I pronounce that right -- as a remote participant.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Dipendra, can you speak, please?
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: This is Dipendra Manocha here. Are you -- am I audible?
>> ANDREA SAKS: I need you to be a little louder.
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: This is Dipendra Manocha from New Delhi, India. And I work for the DAISY Consortium. Again being involved with the DCAD for a long time. Unfortunately not being able to be present in IGF at this time.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Dipendra. Who else do we have?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Gunela.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Hi, Gunela. Can you introduce yourself, please?
>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Hi, everyone. And I'm also very sorry I can't be there in person. My name is Gunela Astbrink. And for that's -- for the captionist it's spelled G‑u‑n‑e‑l‑a A‑s‑t‑b‑r‑i‑n‑k.
I've worked with disability policy for 25 years. I'm a member of Women with Disabilities Australia and a Director with Cheryl on ISOC EU and also a member of the Pacific Islands chapter of the Internet Society. And I'm very happy to participate in DCAD today. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Gunela. That's great. Now, is there anyone else? Or have we covered everybody remotely?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: We also have Misha --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Misha, please introduce yourself. Misha is in Geneva.
>> AUDIENCE: Hello, my name is Misha. I'm the acting secretariat for the DCAD.
>> ANDREA SAKS: DCAD is Dynamic Coalition on Accessibility and Disability. So we have an acronym. We call it DCAD or DCAD.
And Deirdre, do we have anybody else remotely?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Joly MacFie.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I couldn't hear you, Deirdre.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Joly MacFie.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Joly MacFie, would you like to introduce yourself, please?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: I think that Joly is from ISOC, J‑o‑l‑y M‑a‑c‑F‑i‑e.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We're still getting an echo, Roy. Okay. We can't do anything about it. We'll have to fight through it. That mic isn't very loud. Let's get another one. It's not very loud. Hold it really close to your mouth.
>> DEIRDRE SAKS: I was saying that we have Joly MacFie. And I believe he is associated with ISOC.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. Now, the rest of you who come late, I can't take the time to introduce you. But what we were attempting to do -- and there will be a transcript of this captioning to enable people to see who was here. But we wanted people to know who was on the line. All of these people who are members of DCAD work towards a goal. Now, I'm just going to introduce what -- oh, technical problems aren't the half of it. Hold on. Let me see if I can get this working. I would rather move up rather than go to the agenda straight. I would like to do one small thing. Could somebody please move to the top of the page? That's you. Move it to the top. I want the written word. Just go one page over. That's it. Right. This is on the Web. This tells you what the Dynamic Coalition does.
The Dynamic Coalition is really the nagger of the IGF to make meetings accessible. We have been analyzing the meetings over a period of time and we are continually trying to work with IGF to make things better. We go backwards and forwards on different issues. But this is what the Dynamic Coalition does as well as talk about Internet governance so the Dynamic Coalition has a twofold job. One to make sure here and remotely we are accessible. And also Internet governance which affects directly and impacts the lives of Persons with Disabilities. So now we'll head for the agenda.
You know who we are. I am Andrea Saks. Vice Chairman is Peter Major. And we have Deirdre Williams, not Peter Major and Ginger Paque this time as remote moderator and welcome. So I need all of you to approve the agenda. So since some of you can't read the agenda, I will read it through for everyone so they know what is on the agenda and if you can hold your comments because we have something called any other business.
Where you can add something that you wish to speak about that is not on the agenda.
So the first thing is to review accessibility at this IGF meeting. And the topics that we want to cover are, accessibility facilities at the IGF meeting.
Accessibility web pages and printed materials.
Hotel accommodation and information for delegates.
The IGF registration form and process.
Review of the of Internet facilities and connectivity.
Review of remote participation all aspects.
That's No. 3. That's going to be what we start with.
Then when we have covered that, we go to No. 4, which is review of the updated DCAD Accessibility Guidelines, which we have written and rewritten and rewritten again as we experience other difficulties and problems that occur and also some things are good, by the way, not everything is gloom and doom. No. 5, funding of accessibility experts and IGF participants, including remote moderators.
6, discussion re the main sessions, do they apply to accessibility.
No. 7, review of DCAD activities at IGF.
Now, that's what's just happened. We have just had a workshop. Bullet No. 1, G3ict and DCAD did a Joint Workshop No. 89 "Multi-Stakeholder Engagement: Imperative for Web Accessibility". Those of you may have comments about that. There is a report that's already written and written on the Web that we did just afterwards things to Misha who has got fast fingers, Misha the secretariat in Geneva and other Workshops on Accessibility. Gunela you will open your mouth and talk about yours, please, which is next coming up after this afternoon.
No. 8, Open Forum of participants and DCAD members. Now that's where you're going to get to fly on whatever else you would like to talk about, special things and I have promised the Secretary-General for the organisation in Egypt to have a few words because he has asked to do that. And I welcome him.
Future activities of DCAD for the next year and how we proceed to the future. And then there is any other business.
Is there any other business that any of you would like to add to this agenda? If you're in the room, raise your hand. Deirdre, is there anybody on remote?
Great. Then I presume -- ah, we have somebody. Carry on.
>> AUDIENCE: I think if --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Could you name yourself before you speak for the captioner, please.
>> AUDIENCE: My name is Pashkar in Bangladesh. Pashkar. So I would like to suggest to make a small Working Group in the IGF on disability and accessibility because I saw that disability issues is not that much highlighted in the IGF. As a participant I feel along the -- among the 3,000 participants we have a few I don't know maybe five I don't know, I met only two, three so I think there should be a small Working Group on disability and accessibility in Internet Governance.
>> ANDREA SAKS: This is it, kid. This is it. I welcome your participation. We are the IGF Dynamic Coalition on Accessibility and Disability. We would welcome your participation. Because we are small. We would like to be bigger. So we definitely would like you to join. This is the group. Okay. We have a remote participation comment. Go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl Langdon-Orr has some comments.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Could you speak louder, please?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl Langdon-Orr has some points to make.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We're waiting for the captioning to catch up. Go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl, do you want to speak yourself?
>> ANDREA SAKS: Cheryl, this is just to add to the agenda. Not points on what is in the agenda. So if you want to add something to the agenda, then speak now. Otherwise, you will be given the floor as the points come up. Is that okay?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl wants to add to any other business to the agenda.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Perfect.
>> CHERYL LANGDON-ORR: I'll try with the audio but I typed it because my audio isn't very good on this speaker system.
I have some points I will type in and any other business regarding operating system variability and captioning via WebEx thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Cheryl, that will be covered in review of accessibility at this IGF meeting No. 3. So that is already on the agenda. But thank you for highlighting that. I think we're well aware of having had such difficulty in getting that done. We will certainly have you repeat that at that moment. Is that okay? Do I have an affirmative? I take silence.
Okay. Do we accept agenda? Fine. All right.
Now, here it is. Review of accessibility at this IGF meeting. The first one is accessibility facilities at the IGF meeting. Does anyone want to make a comment, please? Please go ahead and give your name for the captioner so we know who it is. Go ahead.
>> JUDY OKITE: Thank you, Andrea my name is Judy Okite from Nairobi. Physical accessibility has been terrible.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Come on Judy you can do better than that. Tell me more. We want everybody to know exactly what you've been messing around about.
>> JUDY OKITE: Thank you, Andrea.
For starters, we have people who are not really sure where the rooms are. And so that one I believe applies for everyone else. Secondly, going up and down, there is an area that you have to do escalators. And there's no lifts to there.
And so I have to keep going through the kitchen. And coming out and going out and -- yeah, it's quite a long distance. And lastly, they had to get me a wheelchair because of getting around. Yeah, thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Judy as you know I have arthritis I've been visiting the tomatoes in the kitchen as well there is a lift but it was not sign posted it was not noted IGF staff didn't know its existence we find it, you found it. Members had to find it.
And also, it doesn't just impact us who declare that I have age related and you have walking disabilities because you're young and beautiful. You're not getting them on the age factor.
But many of the older -- and we say this most respectfully -- age related disability, people who are older, their knees are dieing. It's really, really terrible. Just every day -- just everyday people who have problems doing that length of stairs. Now, we have taken note of that. And we will talk about the fact of how we've got to solve -- we have solved that in the guidelines. In the guidelines basically we say we have to have a mapping procedure which shows where everything is, that is available to delegates that's accessible and while we're on the subject why don't we just go into it. Francesca had a solution which is in the guidelines which you we'll look at in a few minutes. Why don't you say what we discussed as a solution for this?
>> FRANCESCA BIANCHI: Well, there is -- there are -- of course there is technology that can do that, as well. So I just want to suggest about some ways to use technology and especially mobile technology to work on mapping. And there are organisations also founded by Persons with Disabilities actually which can help and we are very welcome to provide names.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you we will take note of the of names that we can for the next IGF.
I saw a hand go up. Would you like the floor. And will you identify yourself since you've come a little bit later for the captioning.
>> SATISH BABU: I'm Satish Babu from India. I would like to add on a point to what Judy has just mentioned.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Closer to the mic, please.
>> SATISH BABU: Can you hear me now? Okay. As a person who has been helping out Judy, including taking her through the kitchen in the wheelchair, I am reminded of Baku. Where the people requiring assistance had one volunteer at least attached to them to take care of their special needs. I don't find that here. Because wheelchairs don't push themselves. So I think it is important that the support structure is also provided. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Right I think that's an important point. We need volunteers who can come and help be guides or push wheelchairs or assist Persons with Disabilities to navigate the premises. Okay Deirdre speaking for herself, go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: And Shadi also has a response to make. But he hasn't made it yet.
My suggestions, why doesn't the -- perhaps the IGF secretariat in future arrange a colour coded routing for People with Disabilities so you don't have to ask. It's there already. You follow the yellow arrows. And that will take you to all the lifts and all the correct doorways and those sorts of things. I don't know if that's helpful.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Deirdre the captioning will be recording this and it will be posted. You said Shadi had and then next -- okay, Shadi had a comment about the premises. Go ahead, Shadi.
>> SHADI ABOU-ZAHRA: It's less about the premises. I'm not there in person to judge. But just responding to this discussion, I get very concerned when I hear about needing help from external people. I strongly believe in a Universal Design approach of independent living I use a wheelchair myself and I would prefer to get around without any help and that is possible if the building is well designed and I think rather than having markings and you need to remember with colour those which elevator or whatever, that clear signpostings which will be valuable for everyone regardless of a disability or not. So I really think we should look at making the information available, making the facilities available so everyone rather than kind of -- I'm concerned it could be misunderstood for the organisers that they don't need to worry about those things they will just assign some students or whatever that will push people around and that's really highly concerning for me.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Shadi. With all due respect, I totally agree with you on the ideal situation. But there are circumstances where perhaps that would not be possible for all human beings to be able to do.
But the mapping and knowledge that needs to be given out by IGF staff and training I think is something that is where a lot of people were going.
So we'll take note of that. And the ultimate goal is the goal that you describe. And I'm in total agreement of that.
Now, I promised the gentleman from Bangladesh I'm sorry I've forgot your name. We have it on the captioning. But go ahead. Say your name again so we know it's you.
>> AUDIENCE: My name is Pashkar. Pashkar, P‑a‑s‑h‑k‑a‑r. Very difficult name. Sorry for that. This is also not accessible.
However, I was just the last few days around these 3,000 people. I can just meet maybe 40 because people are not really -- it is very difficult for us to go around and meet with the peoples and to get the attention from the moderator and so on.
So I believe IGF will take some initiative for giving the information to the moderators and all of the panelists, there should be some People with Disabilities then if they raise their hand or how they can be involved with this initiative. And also the information -- maximum informations are not accessible to us. And I didn't get any accessible materials yet. So it is really difficult to know everything without anybody's help so I'm continuously getting help from the IGF secretariat or information booths to know what is going on. And how it's going on.
Because it's also -- the place is a little bit difficult to understand because of the inaccessibility of the design.
I think in the next IGF, the accessibility needs of information should be considered and given priority. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you very much and the reason I can't get your name is because I have a -- I'm dyslexic. Everyone must say their name each time so when we go back through this record we know who said what. Deirdre, you have a remote participant. Put the mic close to your mouth.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: In fact there are two. Cheryl Langdon-Orr is pointing out the difficulty with motorized cars that they have a reversing signal which makes a noise which is disturbing. And Gunela Astbrink would like to make a point herself.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead, Gunela. And we'll take note of that, Cheryl. Go ahead, Gunela.
>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Yeah, thanks, Andrea.
This is Gunela Astbrink for the transcript. Just to follow on with what Shadi and Pashkar has raised and probably this has been considered before. But surely when a particular conference venue is being considered amongst maybe one or two others isn't there a way where there can be an accessibility audit of potential venues so we know if they are accessible, where there are issues beforehand. And that audit can be done either by secretariat staff who have in hand the types of accessibility meeting guidelines that have been developed. Or have local People with Disabilities to participate in doing that audit.
So we have that firsthand information about what's going to work in the system. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. What we have also put in the guidelines is that the Dynamic Coalition again has requested to work with the secretariat.
From digging around as some of you know me personally that I'm able to do I found out it was a decision based on money and one of the comments that's made in the guidelines is these countries need to pull their fingers out and open their pockets to be able to pay for accessible premises.
Okay. And we're going to read the guidelines. So some of your concerns are covered.
Now, is there anybody else who wants to make a comment on the facilities? Yes, please, please, go ahead, Secretary-General.
>> AUDIENCE: I may suggest that some kind of application -- mobile application to be made utilizing GPS internal GPS for the premises so as to guide especially the blind people through their way into their -- the different halls and rooms and so as to enable them to reach where they want to -- whatever place they want to go to.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. Of we have taken note of that.
The next bullet point I want to go to but before I do, is there any other comment regarding accessible facilities at the IGF meeting? We have one more comment. Remember, everyone, we have time. I don't want to dwell too much on that okay we have one and then we have a gentleman in the back go ahead the remote participant who is that.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Shadi Abou-Zahra says signposting in an elevator or unlocking it hardly costs money. This is a problem that occurred at many IGFs.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes, Shadi, you are most correct. The gentleman in the back is going to take the mic would you please say your name for the captioner, please.
>> AUDIENCE: Hello, Andrea. This is Mehmet Amergi (phonetic). Well, about the facilities of this IGF meeting, we now are in a process of checking the buildings in Istanbul in terms of accessibility problems. And I take the note of the of comments that have been made already for this facility. And I will tell the Commission to come and observe the building. Maybe they can solve the problems for coming meetings in this facility. Because this is a general Congress centre. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Mehmet. Mehmet participated in the workshop we did earlier in the week and is blind and is the Vice President of the blind association here in Turkey and thank you very much for that comment.
Okay. We're going to the next one.
Accessibility web pages and printed materials. I have heard one comment already that one delegate did not get accessible materials. Does anyone want to say anything about the accessibility of the Web site? And web pages and printed materials. Because a lot of this we have covered in the guidelines. And we will read those out.
Okay we'll move on to the next one. Hotel accommodations, were they accessible? And information for delegates we have covered a little bit of information for delegates. But how about hotel accommodation? Okay Judy go for it. Please say your name for the captioner, too.
>> JUDY OKITE: My name is Judy Okite. Once again about the hotels. I know Dee and Satish are laughing because they know the nightmare I have gone through at the point of making reservations I made it very clear on the kind of room that I wanted. When I got to the hotel, they said that room is not available so I need to wait for two more days. Two more days later I was given a room that was worse than the standard room.
They said that it's a special room. But the bathroom area is very slippery.
So I came back to them and I told them, I cannot take a shower. Because it is too slippery for me.
And the person says they don't have an option. So what I need to do is to take my staff, go to the -- go to the stuff go to the pool area take a shower there and then I come back to my room.
That has not been sorted until now. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: That's a horror story. I think we're going to have to extend but maybe not this particular guideline but for next revision because we will add what is not in the guideline to the next guideline for next year and make note of that. We might be -- we will adjust that and make more emphasis on hotel because what we have said is only that they should hold the rooms. We have of not made any kind of notation about people giving you rooms that are not accessible saying that they are. And maybe there has to be something that the IGF will check when they put hotels on the list that the hotel rooms are in fact accessible.
So Judy, that is -- I don't know if we can stick that in really quickly. Do you think we can? Yeah, we'll pop that in we can pop that in before we go I'll read that through and we'll make a note putting that rooms should be checked or the hotel is not deemed an accessible hotel.
Thank you, anyone else want to comment on the hotel? Who is on the line? Gerry go ahead Gerry. I know that voice.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Hello, Andrea, Gerry Ellis here in Dublin. I think what would be helpful is a recent Irish standard that was produced in the area of communications and tourism.
This was what's called the swift standard written in pastime.
It was written in conjunction with the Irish national standards authority of Ireland. And it has won international awards because it's the first standard of its kind anywhere in the world to make tourism accessible.
I recommend this standard be adopted by DCAD and be made available to IGF to help with the kind of problems that we have heard to try to help overcome these horror stories. So after the meeting, if you like, I will make that available to you and recommend that you adopt it.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thanks we'll add that to the DCAD web page incidentally we have an updated DCAD web page what we don't get done here with this IGF and the guidelines we'll begin to do in the next revision.
I'll put that up there. Is there any you other comment on the hotel.
Information for delegates. Is there any more comment that anyone would like to make other than what we have already discussed? Yes, go ahead Deirdre you have somebody.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Gunela Astbrink suggests that we could have case studies on the difficulties some people have that might highlight why the guidelines are important.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Gunela everything that everything says is being captioned. I will a record and I will ask peoples permissions like Judy to say can I use you to say that Judy is nodding yes of course she would. But everybody who has a story we want to hear it. And that's an excellent suggestion, Gunela, that will be done.
Web pages --
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Can I just add --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl Langdon-Orr has a couple of really complex difficulties. At one point I'm not sure if I understand her. She is saying that she had to accept the accompanying person to sleep in a twin bedded room with her to be able to help her to manage.
>> CHERYL LANGDON-ORR: Basically the choice was I could have a bathroom that was safe or I had to sleep with my accompanying person.
Now, I chose to have the twin bed option for safe bathroom but that's unconscionable so we have lots of case studies and I think that's a really good idea.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Cheryl, can I ask you to document that in writing and tell your story so we can post some kind of -- we'll work together because will you join the next DCAD meeting which is a conference call later in year which we will rehash more of these horror stories and record them. So that they will publicly be on the ITU DCAD Web site. Can you do that for me, please? There's a thumbs up. Great. Okay.
Anything else on hotel accommodation and also information for delegates? How was that for everyone? We've had some comments and we have it covered in the guidelines that we're going to read in just a few minutes.
How about the IGF registration form and process; how did you find that? Dipendra, did you find it okay? Reason I'm calling out Dipendra can't use the raise your hand on the WebEx and the same thing applies to Gerry, if you use WebEx you have to switch off your screen reader in order to listen to the meeting and vice versa if you want to navigate so Dipendra do you have a comment on how it was for you to register. Go ahead.
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: Am I audible on this.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes, you're on, I can hear you.
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: So the registration process was reasonable I would say. I was able to register.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. Gerry, how was your experience?
>> GERRY ELLIS: Gerry in Dublin here. I don't particularly remember any issues when I was registering and that's a very good thing because if there was a problem, I would remember, if it's easy I don't so I think it wasn't too bad.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay. We have of a section on that in the guidelines which discusses people actually letting IGF know for the numbers of People with Disabilities with the different types of disability so they get a better idea that the just not one or two people and it would encourage more Persons with Disabilities to be able to attend if they knew that their needs would be recognized and that there was a sufficient accommodation, therefore, we would have more Persons with Disabilities who would attend so that we will read that in a minute.
Okay. We'll move on to the next one.
>> DIPENDRA MANOCHA: Andrea this is Dipendra again. Sorry Dipendra Manocha here.
I just wanted to say that I will need to leave in between from the remote participation. I just wanted to let you know.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay, Dipendra, would you do me a favor, if you have to leave, do read the guidelines. If you have a suggestion, would you kindly drop me an e-mail? Thank you. And thank you for connecting in.
Anybody else wish to make a comment. Go ahead. Go ahead, Gunela.
>> GUNELA ASTBRINK: Thank you. I just want to ask about the schedule programme that was on the Web site. This is a new programme for this year. And while I as a sighted person found it quite useful to be able to see what the particular sessions I would go to, I did an automated accessibility check and it didn't seem to be accessible.
So I would be interested to hear from Gerry and Dipendra what their thoughts were on that scheduling programme, if they would so.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Gunela just a second. I have some people in the room who would possibly use screen readers to check the schedule, also. So I hope to hear from them. And Gerry, do you have a comment on that as requested by Gunela?
>> GERRY ELLIS: Hi, Gerry here. I didn't actually go into the schedule page because Susanna has been so good at keeping us up to date with what was going on. The one comment I would have is when information was sent to us about meetings, Susanna just took it from the Web site and sent it to us and all of the meetings seemed to start at 9 a.m. in the morning. That wasn't Susanna's fault. It seems to be the way the information is held on the Web site and that was very confusing.
So I didn't actually go into the scheduling because I knew what workshops I was going to attend and because I wasn't physically present I wasn't going to attend that many workshops. So hopefully that's helpful.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I will recognize the gentleman on the floor, please, go ahead. What is your name? Put the microphone on.
>> PABLO LECUONA: Hello, Pablo. Excuse me for my bad English.
I use this tool very well. In mobile and in the computer, it's a good tool to organize and search and found the information.
I don't have a problem with the use with search for this tool.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay so this is an improvement over last year. Can you switch off the mic, please. Pablo, thank you. So this has been an improvement over last year to explain Susanna is an IGF staff member and one of the things that DCAD does is we drive IGF mad with all of the things we know could go wrong and Susanna has assisted many people who did have some difficulty in registering as well as Serena did and I'm just giving first names for the moment so this has been an improvement. Are there any other comments about -- so we can say that the Web site is an improvement over last year. Cheryl, you had quite a lot of comments about last year's illegible tiny print not able to read scheduling thing. Was it better for you this year?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Cheryl has stepped away for a moment so she will not be there to hear you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We'll take it as kind of like since she didn't mention it was bad it's probably better. Okay.
Review of the remote participation and all aspects. Actually this is one, even though we had difficulty from my point of view, it's a lot better than last year. And it's better one than we have ever had because we've got the support of the IGF the technicians in Turkey have been brilliant. And maybe -- if anybody wants to make a comment, even though there have been problems, the only big problem seems to be clearing the room with sufficient time to be able to test so it doesn't come into meeting times. That's been my observation when we're first in the morning, it's okay. But even so, we have to make sure an IGF person is onsite early. And Susanna didn't do the first one. But she's been brilliant here.
Are there any comments that -- thank you, Susanna.
Have there been any issues other than we've had, echoes and difficulty in contacting and maybe discussing the WebEx problem. Does anyone want to deal with that? Okay. I'll deal with it.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Gerry here.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We have had some interesting results in talking to different people and I'll let the next person comment. I had the pleasure of talking to Vint Cerf totally understood the fact that maybe Google can help do a remote participation tool we also put in the idea for instance with blind access there could be a way of doing it where if you are using a screen reader, you would be transferred to another page where the dual audio channel problem would be solved so work is starting to be done Bernard Sadaka, who two years ago was in charge of remote participation is going to make a contribution to the ITU to standardise what should be in from user needs for remote participation tools and though we use WebEx here there's Adobe Connect there's GoToMeeting there are many other different kinds of tools that people use to do remote meetings so progress is being made from the ITU point of view.
And that's a bit of news.
Other than that, the only thing the Dynamic Coalition wishes to suggest and we have put this in the guideline that we are a part of the communication and when they do talk to WebEx about allowing a different kind of contract so that remote participant ants, for instance, who have a disability, do not have to pay to call in.
Gerry, go ahead, you wanted to make a comment.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Okay. Gerry. To revert back briefly to the previous thing about schedules, I'm just in it now and I would say there's a problem in the way that it's for mandatory disclosure. And the use of headings, tables would be better. So there are some issues around the formatting of this schedule. But it is readable. But it's difficult.
Around remote participation, I agree with you that it is much better this year than it was last year. When I joined yesterday I was well able to make a remote presentation and I could easily hear what was going on in the room yesterday -- or not yesterday, sorry, Tuesday was very good indeed.
Today when we joined, there were technical problems as you said that should have been sorted out in advance. But they were sorted out before 9:30. The first 30 minutes were difficult. I couldn't hear what's going on but now it's very, very good. So that's -- so the negative is that it should have been sorted out in advance but the very strong positive there is that people took a strong interest, took what needed to be done and did it during the meeting and that's very impressive so I would say it's the much better this year than last year.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you Gerry and the thing what we're going to suggest, also, Chairman who have a meeting just before an accessible meeting event or workshop have to be told they have to vacate the room on time and not carry 20 minutes over because that's our time to do more testing so Susanna I'm going to ask you to take note of that Program Performance Report that back it was lucky that I knew who was the Chairman because I stood up and waved and said no you have to stop which I don't really think I have to do.
Now, this is the fun bit, can we put up -- if we have covered all of those points and people have made their comments, can we put up, please, the updated Dynamic Coalition on Accessibility and Disability Accessibility Guidelines for IGF? We have a comment before?
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: I asked Cheryl Langdon-Orr about the print size that you mentioned and when she came back. She says the issue with WebEx from my point of view is that I have four connection equipment options but only some operating systems run the captioning. It's not working well with tabloid, Android operating system and the Ubuntu operating system doesn't run WebEx at all.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Those are issues with mobile telephony and we'll make a note of that. But if you go to the Web streaming, Cheryl, it's pretty good. If you go to the Web streaming thing on a computer, they actually have the captioning underneath the Web streaming and it's very, very good this year. We were very pleased with the fact that there's sufficient space for the captioning underneath.
But on the mobile aspect or using O2 -- I realize you might be in a remote area there are problems regarding fiberoptics so sometimes it has nothing to do with actually WebEx. It's to do with the connectivity.
But I take your point.
And always write these things to me in an e-mail because then I can check and deal with that later.
So we have the -- let me bring up this page on my page. The Dynamic Coalition. We have another comment, Judy go right ahead.
>> JUDY OKITE: Thank you, Andrea. My name is Judy Okite. I would just like to make a little correction on what Cheryl had said.
The Ubuntu actually does run WebEx I'm running it currently.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I couldn't quite -- ah, okay. We can deal with technical aspects later and that would be useful information. This is not the -- this is still -- I still need to have put up the new DCAD accessibility -- this is not the page. It's the other one -- in the stick, Susanna. That's the agenda. We need to change it. Thank you.
Guidelines clean revamped okay we'll have that up in just a minute so thank you we're still doing some things manually we should also load those in advance and they should know.
Okay. Well we probably could figure out a way you to do it more smoothly. Okay. Well, we're getting there. A little background check, are we ready? Is it up? Not yet. There we go now we need to make it full screen, please. So people can see it. I think it's difficult to read. Can we make it full screen.
So each page is not two pages but one page.
Anyway, the first page is the title page -- no we need to do that the first page title page there we go. It's DCAD Accessibility Guidelines 2014 that's too fast I haven't read that thing yet, please.
All right. And can you go back to the title page, please. I'm going to read the title page for everybody DCAD Accessibility Guidelines 2014 and we have a nice title page by the way accessibility and disability in IGF meetings. This update of previous guidelines was completed during the DCAD meeting held at the 9th IGF meeting in Istanbul Turkey September 2014.
We worked on all the different things that we found that were inaccessible, some of them you have mentioned. And a couple of them we have missed.
If we can't get them in completely we will certainly put them in the next year but there's enough in here.
So this is going to take some time to read. But I'm going to do -- I can't read the whole thing to you. But if you have those -- because of the time factor and I want to get through.
If you have a minute with the screen reader, those of you who need to do that, I'm going to go through the titles.
And not go through every -- all the paragraphs. That way you get an idea. Of the titles and subtitles. Be aware of attendees’ needs and requirements. Actually sorry I forgot to read the little introduction the Internet Governance Forum IGF Dynamic Coalition on Accessibility and Disability would like to provide the following guidelines to the IGF secretariat on how to improve accessibility at IGF meetings and to eliminate barriers. The intention is to help the IGF secretariat to improve accessibility for Persons with Disabilities and to include persons with age related disabilities during IGF meetings.
This requires the staff of IGF to understand certain procedures and to include those requirements as mandatory in all post agreements post agreements. That's one thing to stress No. 2 accessibility considerations when organising IGF meeting beware of attendees needs and requirements there should be space on the online registration form to record if a person has any access requirements or specific needs. The registration form should be in accessible format.
Now there are more pieces of information in the paragraph below but we don't have time to go into those so if you want to have this changed or add something, you have to contact me directly from e-mail.
Now, choose the accessibility environment for the meeting. Choosing, we have gone into just about everything that you have mentioned here and a few more. Determine whether the location of the meeting buildings, cities is okay for person with disabilities before booking the event and then go into detail choose the right venue we have gone into detail chooses accessible meeting rooms we have gone into detail technical accessibility we have gone into detail there and no background noise, which actually is -- that's happened. We don't have the music playing. Ensure whether other facilities are accessible it's been pretty good for the toilets and I think that's an important issue. Especially for me. Provide clear signs. That has not been done here. We have not had clear signage. We don't know where the elevators are even if they were in the kitchen.
We don't have staff that are guiding people through. We did today. I you found a young lady who told me what was going on. But they need to be signed themselves not just a badge they need a sign that we can see that's big that we know that these are the guides that will help us even if it is taking us through tomatoes arrange fully accessible and clearly signed emergency experts in evacuation procedures that seems to be okay No. 3 provide information about the event, building and other facilities underneath provide information on accessibility of the venue. That needs to be printed out and on web. And in accessible format and other alternative print things so people actually do now and we have put in there about the mapping of technology and using the different technologies that both the Secretary-General and Francesca have mentioned confirming the dates of the sessions as soon as possible.
So people can make travel arrangements because it's difficult for Persons with Disabilities to sometimes make arrangements if they are not given sufficient time. Provide accessible information. We have gone through here are the lists with more paragraphs. Ensure that the information material is accessible. Make presentations accessible and again every single one of these has an explanatory paragraph. Make videos accessible I'm going to read this one because it's the short and it's really are imperative. It's imperative that all videos projected at the conference must include open captions to allow attendees with hearing disability and non-native speakers to understand the contents.
The next one is make sure that the Web site is accessible. We seem to be all right with that. But that constantly has to be checked. Provide sign language interpretation when attendees require it in the language of the participant.
There's been an issue at the UN where they just want to use international sign language which is unacceptable because it's not totally understood by all as the hearing world would like to think and the vocabulary is equivalent to that of a pigeon language we have lost the screen, please, can we have it back on. I'll continue to read.
For the time being. There we go. Thank you.
No. 5, train and inform all assistant staff.
There should be an accessibility desk. That is something we have decided that would be absolutely beneficial. Because accessibility needs are sometimes different than just general information needs.
Make the registration process accessible. It's better. So we're certainly -- but there's more information on that.
Allow anyone to provide feedback and comment.
Well this is what we're doing here. Then we put annexes of a possible example of how to make an accessible registration form for people to be able to indicate some of the needs that they need to express that they need to be able to do IGF aware of. For not only the numbers of the people that are coming but also for the different types of disabilities that are being accommodated. Then there's Annex 2, verification list for the meeting day.
This is for IGF staff. It's a checklist of sorts. We are going to make a better one, we have had more suggestions but on the day or before the meeting check the internal signage or directions or before the event check the room layouts on the day and before the meeting of the event check registration arrangements as appropriate on the day and before the meeting check all of the equipment works.
This means like what we tried to do with making things accessible.
It goes through an extensive list. I think there's some other things that could be done. But we're going to put on there a possible checklist that will be better.
There's some Web site -- Annex 3 has a Web site with other accessible lists and other organisations who have written about accessible meetings so there's quite a lot of information even Google has one and ITU-D, we have one. And we the accessibility access checklist disabled women's network in Ontario has one so there's information there but this is something that we wanted to give you and we've been told that we can present this at the closing plenary if it's not got everything, I think we still are going to do it anyways but we're going to go through and update it over the next year because every year we add more. Weaver got ten minutes left.
Does anybody want to make a comment on the guidelines? Because I would like to be able to go through the other bits of the agenda I know everyone went up at the same time. I will go with -- yes. And then -- okay. Go ahead.
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. I think it is --
>> ANDREA SAKS: Name, please.
>> AUDIENCE: My name is Pashkar. I'm from Bangladesh. So the thing is that the list looks wonderful. But we need to make a little bit more things like the People with Disabilities should include it in the different session as a panelist or discussionist as they have. And secondly regarding like the -- what you are seeing without anybody's escort it's hard for anybody to move independently. Third is like we can have an e-mail discussion list or groups to improve for the future things. Last is I believe next IGF will be more disability inclusive. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. And I couldn't agree with you more about having more panelists who are Persons with Disabilities and that we won't be able to put in the guidelines now but I think this is work we can do over the year. I would like to invite you to help me with that was it Judy that had her hand up we have three I'll go straight down the line Judy go ahead.
>> JUDY OKITE: Thank you, Andrea. Judy from Nairobi. I would like to add instead of just saying a general give us the information early enough can we give it a timeframe?
>> ANDREA SAKS: Yes I think we probably could. Again a timeframe would be something we would have of to discuss with IGF because that would be something -- I want to get this out now. Can we put -- can you help me work on that when we amend this over the next year because one of the problems I had I did ask members of the Dynamic Coalition to help me put this together so you have that job is that okay and then we'll amend that and then we'll have a paragraph. Thank you, Judy.
>> JUDY OKITE: That's fine.
>> SATISH BABU: Satish for the record. I think the guidelines are very comprehensive. My question would be what happens to these? Are these given to the next set of organisers as a checklist so that they can follow these otherwise from if 2009 onwards some of these issues are recurring they have not gone away so while she's very nice set of recommendations do exist, I would like to know if they are actionable in the sense of each organizer is using it.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I'm aware that we have gone backwards on many issues. And I'm also aware that just producing this is not going to do it. We have to lobby and I'll count on you to do that. Hopefully there was only one speaker in the opening plenary who mentioned accessibility and that was the Deputy Secretary-General of the UNESCO. And my own Deputy Secretary-General about that, as well I'm going to talk to them about that but done worry we'll get it but the point is basically what the Dynamic Coalition is trying to do this is why the group is formed we need you to attend the meetings talk to us about strategy and talk to your governments and get supports because the Dynamic Coalition is beginning to be listened to so at the moment I appreciate exactly what you have said. Next speaker, please, is -- oh God I'm just calling you Secretary-General of the blind association.
That's you. Can you push the button for the gentleman, please, because it's weird. It's not clearly marked with a Braille button. That's something else that has to be dealt with. Equipment must be clear -- if that sort of thing --
>> SATISH BABU: Must be labeled clearly.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Exactly we have mentioned that.
>> SATISH BABU: Yeah.
>> AUDIENCE: I suggest the badges of the of People with Disabilities to be different in colours or in shapes than the other badges so other people not only the organisers would recognize that this person has a special need.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay we can certainly request that there is an issue, though, that some people do not wish to be identified in that manner because it's a tricky situation however I would think yours should be in Braille if you would like to be able to read it and know it was there. But it depends if you want to identify yourself in that way. But you should be identified for sure to the IGF secretariat and hopefully with the registration process. Now we can make that suggestion and it can be videoed on on the next Dynamic Coalition call which we're going to plan. If and if you have not joined the reflector, it's on the ITU Web site I'll take your card and make sure that you are on.
All of you who wish to dine the Dynamic Coalition I need as many volunteers as possible so I'll take note of that.
There's a hand up in the back. Would somebody please give him the mic? Thank you and will you identify yourself.
>> AUDIENCE: Mehmet again from Turkey. In terms of getting around and finding your way in the building, while somebody from the organisers got in touch with me during the registration process because I wrote in my registration form that I would need assistance since I am blind.
So they contacted me and they said, okay, well if you tell us what exactly you need we can try to accommodate your needs. And then they at the beginning of the conference on Tuesday they arranged somebody to take me around then if I am -- as long as I want any other assistance, then they can keep that person with me. I don't know what's the experience of the others in terms of this. And they were very helpful. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: A success story because you contacted them and they have provided you with good assistance and that. But one of the reasons we wanted to put that on the registration form is that so they would know and people could do it in an anonymous manner.
Are there any other comments. Yes, go ahead, please and please give your name before you speak for the captioner.
>> JOHN DADA: My name is John Dada. I'm from Nigeria. I want to suggest that for the sake of continuity and carry-through of suggestions, is it possible at the end of the every IGF to have some form of scorecard or rating, some form of DCAD compliance rating for each event? So that it becomes like a gold standard which every event can aim at. Just a thought.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Well, we have been doing it this way we write reports and last year's report was scathing, believe me, I wrote it. This year is better in many areas. But we do have big problems like the stairs so it is done. A scorecard, it goes on the Web, by the way so everyone can read it, it's difficult to be too critical at the time publicly during the meeting because you do have the delegate situation of the of host country. But one of the things that we put at the end of the guidelines is we wanted the host country to not use monetary ransom against IGF about not being able to have a good venue we wanted other countries to pull the money out -- you know open their pockets up. If they want to see IGF continue, they have to pay, they have to contribute to the IGF secretariat coffers.
One of the things why WebEx is used is the license is donated by Cisco so there are lots of interesting issues but if companies want IGF governance to continue they are going to have to contribute more money and a lot of that has to be earmarked for making things successful so again I'm going to ask all of you to go to the ITU Web site and that's where we hold -- all you have to do is go ITU Web site and find accessibility. I'll give everybody my card and then you can see where it is. But we do conference calls throughout the year that are captioned and therefore we have deaf people on. We don't have any on today. But we have a contingency of deaf people and also we have a record of what we have done so all of these issues if I can't get them into the guidelines today, I will certainly open this up in the next meeting and we can possibly make a checklist, did they fail, yes, did they do a good job, yes.
Okay, will you be responsible for that? Great you are recruited, as well. Let's go back to -- can everybody stay over for just another ten minutes? Would that be okay with the technical people for just ten minutes since we started late due to technical problems. Would that be all right? Can we do that? Thank you. We're going to extend for another ten minutes we have a comment from remote participation. Go ahead.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: If you would allow me to summarize, there is discussion in the remote participation chat about the differently colored badges and a conclusion among them that this is certainly a matter that should be videoed on. Not everybody is in favor of it. Although there is -- although there's strong support for putting Braille on the badges so you can read who the person is with your fingers if you can't see the badge. And initially Cheryl had supported the guidelines. That was the first comment really.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Okay. I think the situation with badges does have to be handled in a Dynamic Coalition meeting and I appreciate the conversation what's going on. Whether some of you -- those of you who can't use WebEx, there is a chat box it's possible for remote participants to chat amongst themselves thank you Deirdre for sharing and thank you remote participants for sharing that. We'll have to talk about that, that will go on the agenda for the next dynamic meeting and we will work out a callback situation for Australia. We are down to funding of accessibility experts and IGF participants including remote moderators. I would like to see some -- yes, Gerry hang on one second. I would like to see -- I will put you on. I would like to see some kind of a programme started within IGF where countries donate and help with fellowships but we have never extended that or ever discussed it in any great detail.
Gerry do you want to go ahead, please.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Gerry from Dublin here just about the guidelines, Andrea do you need to have them adopted by the meeting? I had one comment about the guidelines, just about the formatting of it. The numbering and headings in it are kind of all over the place like 1 is introduction and 2 is accessibility consideration and then it's 1 again and then it goes 2 and 3 again and if you look down at the bottom you have 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 so I think that needs to be looked at before we adopt them but other than that I would support them. Do we need to adopt them today?
>> ANDREA SAKS: So Misha are you still on there? No he's not we'll try to see if we can get it done Misha said yes he will go do that -- no he's not on I'm sorry.
>> AUDIENCE: Misha is still there.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Misha, can you redo the formatting on there taking in Gerry's consideration of 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3? We can't do it before we adopt the basic principle, Gerry we have only five more minutes so if we don't get the formatting right we want to get that done in principle it will be posted correctly on the Web site once we get it. But we have to move forward. So would that be all right with you?
>> GERRY ELLIS: Sorry I'm not suggesting we wait for it to be done I'm saying we do need to adopt it but I would like to see that.
>> ANDREA SAKS: We have a little breathing space.
>> GERRY ELLIS: Sorry if I was confusing you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Sorry, Gerry we have a little breathing space on that, please?
>> GERRY ELLIS: Absolutely what you suggested is perfect sorry if I was confusing you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Gerry we will vote on that I just want to get through the agenda really quickly and then we'll come back and do that.
Now, we're not going to have time to do -- review of the workshops and I will say that Gunela has a workshop No. 99 on -- today at 4:30 and I don't have the room number in front of me Gunela -- No. 1. Thank you, No. 1 and those of you who would like to participate remotely, please do. We were going to have an Open Forum of participants and DCAD members it looks like we've had it I'm pretty sure we have had it we've been talking so I think that's good future activities of next year and how we proceed, we're going to try to get more people like yourselves on the DCAD list so you can participate and join the calls. We have a system where you can be called you can call back you don't have to pay for the call we will sort that out with all of you and what I would like to do now, we did have an any other business and I know I gave Secretary-General some moments to speak but I have run out of time.
What I want to do is to say is everyone in agreement that we should submit the Dynamic Coalition guidelines for accessibility to the plenary tomorrow? Okay. It's not perfect. We'll get it better but we'll do it. I can give you -- I promised you some time Secretary-General to say something that you wanted to say. You've got two minutes. Go for it.
>> AUDIENCE: Unfortunately the timing, I was asking to speak about was not related to DCAD. The matter that I was asking to talk about unfortunately doesn't relate to this meeting, I'm sorry. It was related to the previous session which was about women rights. And unfortunately I don't have to waste your time with it. But here I would like to add some -- another suggestion for this session. I don't think I have read much about DCAD. It was -- I came here in the IGF not for this meeting but for another meeting the Arab alliance of Internet freedom. But I would like to suggest here -- I would like to suggest that all materials be transformed into not only Braille or normal accessible materials. They might be recorded and left as MP3s on the site so that people can download them and understand in their native languages if they are available.
I'm sorry to waste your time. But I'm really glad to participate with you here and I would like to if possible to be a member of this great group. Thank you.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you. We didn't put MP3 in there we put DAISY format so we will add MP3, as well. We can do that really quickly because that's a short -- they are paragraphs that we are written under every heading that I've read so we did put it should be in DAISY format so we could -- and I hope Dipendra is listening to this so I hope that for instance the captioning should be made available in DAISY format. But there's always money on all of that and yes I totally agree with you and thank you for staying and yes you are now a member of DCAD. We just have to put you on there because we want you to come and help us we want all of you to come and help us because the stronger our voice are the more we can really push the MAG and other people in host countries. Fortunately we're going to Brazil and Brazil has become very cognitive about Persons with Disabilities we've been working with them in the ITU in the world telecommunications Development Conference and they really have got it on the ball we also have G3ict, global initiative for inclusive ICTs and they have been working in Sao Paolo extensively so we're going to make the next IGF much, much better.
And we're hoping to work more strongly with the IGF secretariat so all of you who have MAG members you are conscious of please speak any other business before I close and I want to thank the technical people for staying with me another -- yes, okay. Jaroslaw Ponder, please go ahead.
>> JAROSLAW PONDER: First of all, thank you very much for giving me a slot for speaking. Thank you very much for your leadership in conducting this meeting and also for the good guidelines, which will be not only useful for this meeting but also for the other meetings and also related to the WSIS process so thanks a lot for this. I have only the two points to make I wanted to update our colleagues involved in the debate on accessibility, that the ITU has adopted the ITU accessibility policy and 2014 accessibility plan which is improving accessibility of the ITU and its meetings as well as we significantly improved the level of accessibility of our services provided to the global participants of the ITU meetings and collaborative groups. In addition, also, the ITU-T Focus Group on audiovisual media accessibility concluded its work and we invite you to build on this with the engagement of several stakeholders but Andrea is the best person also to refer to to this.
Also we initiated some building capacity and raising awareness activities. And in particular we wanted to draw attention to the upcoming stream of the capacity building trainings which will be free of charge, available to the global community on two issues, how to make TV accessible but more importantly how to make the Web accessible. So for the expressions how to make indeed the accessibility working so we hope also on your support in this in spreading the good news and this programme has been initiated through the programme of the of BDT and with the support of the regional initiative of Europe. I had to say this because I'm the European Director. So just on the record so thank you very much one more time Andrea and we are looking towards to BDT '14 taking place in Bhutan where accessibility will be one of the points on the top of the agenda of this conference so thank you very much and looking forward to cooperate.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Thank you, Jaroslaw. The ITU I was told last night by one of the panelists who was the opposition Government agents said she thought the ITU of all of the EU agencies was the most accessible I thought I better tell you that and that's because I've been nagging him and lots of people there. And it's really getting good. Thank you, Jaroslaw. We are really trying hard and we would like to take the same energy that we have been doing to the IGF. I'm afraid I'm going to have to close. Peter I'm so sorry would you like to say something, go on.
>> PETER MAJOR: Yes I'm Peter Major. I understand that tomorrow during the taking stock session you will take the floor and talk about it -- or any one of us will take the floor about the Accessibility Guidelines.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I don't have that confirmed here.
>> PETER MAJOR: So anyway as I'm a member of the MAG I'll bring the attention to the MAG of these guidelines and I'll take all of the opportunities to make these guidelines respected.
>> ANDREA SAKS: Peter thank you very, very much we're going to have to wind it up does anybody have any more comments.
>> DEIRDRE WILLIAMS: Just for the record Gunela Astbrink says for some reason she's not listed as a DCAD member on the ITU Web site.
>> ANDREA SAKS: I will correct that. We have to cut. I want to say thank you very, very much thank you technical people for staying a bit longer. You're wonderful. And we have to cut. Thank you very much. Bye bye for now.